So this is an argument that has been around forever. Which ships have better damage projection? How useful is damage projection? Why are you killing me from all the way over there? These are all questions that come up regularly in space fights and the answers to them vary wildly depending on who you ask.
In WH space, the debate basically comes down to this: Is a Legion better than a Proteus in a fleet fight?
Pretty much all Proteus pilots, myself included, consider a Legion to be a low tank, low DPS junker that has no place anywhere outside of HS incursions.
On the other hand, there are hard core Legion pilots who swear by them and always talk about the Legion's sweet, sweet damage projecting goodness.
So let’s take a look at the 2 ships and see what we find, specifically in terms of damage projection in an extended fight.
(I will be ignoring any implants.)
I'm going to start with tank actually since how we look at it actually does affect damage output of the Legion.
A Proteus is almost always fit with a plate, 2 EANMs, 1 explosive plating/hardener and 3 trimarks for tank and it gets around ~150k EHP with this setup.
A Legion can be tanked the same way and it actually gets about ~5k more EHP with this setup. The issue is that if it is tanked like this it can only fit 2 heat sinks. The alternative is dropping the hardener (thermal in this case) and fitting a therm rig. This keeps the resist profile acceptable and allows for 3 heat sinks but drastically drops the EHP to ~117k. Personally I don't feel this drop in EHP is acceptable, especially in fleet fights, and since the 2 heat sink fit's tank compares so nicely to the Proteus, I'm going to use that fit as a base line for the rest of the comparisons also.
Raw DPS wise, these ships are not even close. Proteus tops at 1033 DPS with Void while the Legion tops at 640 DPS with Conflag.
Given the vast paper difference in DPS, the only way to properly compare then is indeed at range as the Legion pilots say so let’s give it a go.
Void vs Conflag:
Here the Proteus does more DPS to 7km where the Legion takes over out to 13km or so, after which the only thing doing damage are the Proteus's drones.
IN MF vs CN AM:
OK, here we see the Proteus taking top damage out to 10km AND actually retaking the top DPS after 15km, albeit mostly due to drones.
Null vs Scorch:
Ok, this pairing is probably what the Legion pilots are on about I suppose. Still, the Proteus does the most DPS (and we're talking 780 vs 450 here mind) out to 17km where the Legion again takes over and is hitting for 450dps out to 35km.
We can pretty clearly see that yes, the Legion does have more range than the Proteus, though that should be pretty obvious when directly comparing blasters to pulse lasers.
So what about other scenarios where both ships are not using the same type of ammo?
Well, let’s load Null into our Proteus and see what happens to all of the other Legion ammos.
Conflag? Nope, Proteus always does more DPS. IN MF? Still nope, Proteus always does more damage!
Ok, where does this leave us?
Well, the Legion pilots are right; the Legion does project DPS better than the Proteus. But only with scorch. And only outside of 17km. And only assuming the Proteus pilot doesn’t move closer to the target.
But in the end, yes, in a large fight where the targets are spread out across 50km+ of space, you're probably better off with a Legion for damage projection, even if there is only 450 of it.
So is that it? Proteus relegated to small scale brawls, time to train up Legion subs for fleets?
That day may come with the upcoming T3 nerf, BUT IT IS NOT THIS DAY!!
Due to the recent-ish long range medium gun changes, Proteus pilots everywhere can rest assured that anything the Legion can do, they can do better.
That's right, let's talk about rails here.
What happens if you shelf the trusty neutron blasters and strop some 250mm rails on your proteus? How does the scorch matchup look now?
In short, laughable.
250mm rail Proteus does more damage than a scorch Legion at all ranges with a single tracking enhancer and everywhere apart from 34-35km with a triple mag stab fit.
Additionally, loading spike ammo lets you hit for 400dps out to your lock range. Now there's some projection for you.
I'm looking at a tracking sub fit so there are no drones which tops out the DPS at 705 with 3 damage mods or 620 with 2. Adding drones ups it to 860dps but the tracking sub is really needed.
Still, at 700dps implanted and more than fine tracking with Javelin ammo, the 2 damage mod fit gives you a ship that can still respectfully brawl as well as providing the best projected DPS available in any armour T3 fleet.
So what about a beam Legion? Well, you can fit them and the DPS is slightly higher than the Rail Proteus but the fitting on the Legion is much worse so you need to use ACR rigs and the ammo for the Beams is not as versatile as the hybrid ammo so the Legion loses out pretty badly in the comparison.
TL;DR: Don't fly Legions people!
Does this mean that the blaster Proteus is dead? Not really.
While I would now argue that a rail Proteus is the best thing you can bring to large scale fights, the fact remains that very few WH fights take place at ranges beyond the 17km range under which the blaster Proteus is undisputed king.
There is also the fact that the tracking on the 250mm rails is just shy of god awful, forcing the use of the tracking sub system, a tracking enhancer and a tracking computer to compensate for it which means you lose the versatility and added DPS of drones as well as a web.
Never the less, I have swapped out my blaster boat of choice for the rail version for now and will be flying it for the foreseeable future to see how I like it.
Here's the fit I've been running:
[Proteus, JM - Flying Dutchman]
1600mm Reinforced Steel Plates II
Corpii A-Type Adaptive Nano Plating
Imperial Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
Centum A-Type Energized Explosive Membrane
Federation Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer
Federation Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer
Tracking Enhancer II
Corelum C-Type 10MN Microwarpdrive
Republic Fleet Warp Disruptor
Tracking Computer II, Tracking Speed Script
250mm Railgun II, Javelin M
250mm Railgun II, Javelin M
250mm Railgun II, Javelin M
250mm Railgun II, Javelin M
250mm Railgun II, Javelin M
250mm Railgun II, Javelin M
Medium Trimark Armor Pump II
Medium Trimark Armor Pump II
Medium Trimark Armor Pump II
Proteus Defensive - Augmented Plating
Proteus Engineering - Power Core Multiplier
Proteus Propulsion - Localized Injectors
Proteus Offensive - Dissonic Encoding Platform
Proteus Electronics - Friction Extension Processor
I have only had one opportunity to take it out so far but it has already impressed me with how it behaves on the battlefield.
Ironically, the first thing I did with it was brawl at point blank with it on a HS WH against a Harbinger and 2 Drakes because the residents in our static decided to attack me there while I was moving to HS. In this scenario it was very apparent that a blaster Proteus would have been better but I still managed to push all 3 ships through to HS without any problems at all so it still held its own just fine.
We then went to kill some other Drakes and a Harbinger running C2 sites in a random WH 11 jumps away from our HS. This fight showcased the damage projection of my new toy beautifully as I was able to follow and point the Harb which was attempting to flee while still applying full DPS to the primaried Drake.
The fight also showcased the surprise factor a rail Proteus provides since no one expects it. Near the end of the fight a Falcon warped in at 70km to try save the last Drake. He completely ignored my Proteus, likely since I wasn't pointing the Drake, so I was able to lock it, burn to my 54km point range and kill it before it noticed what was happening.
The other thing this fight highlighted was how much I absolutely HATE EC drones and why I never fit the point range sub on my blaster Proteus as we lost points on the first Drake and the Harbinger due with myself and the cloaky Proteus we also had both getting jammed by EC drones. Damn Harbinger was in structure too...
On our way home one of our guys in a frig called out that there was a Tornado moving around in out C2 static with the HS and I found it sitting 50km off the HS WH when I jumped in which happens to be well within my point range and well within my gun range so rail Proteus bagged another one on its way home. Point range sub DOES have its uses!
All in all I am happy with the performance of the ship so far any will be using it in place of my blaster Proteus for the time being.
Fly rowdy,
JM
PS: It should be noted that the Loki is by far the worst T3 for damage projection but it makes up for it by being an excellent support ship and having very versatile close range gun and ammo choices.
